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	<title>Comments on: One big, happy Empire; or, Red America</title>
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		<title>By: Buckethead</title>
		<link>http://perfidy.org/one-big-happy-empire-or-red-america/comment-page-1/#comment-336</link>
		<dc:creator>Buckethead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://perfidy.org/one-big-happy-empire-or-red-america/#comment-336</guid>
		<description>I think that while the manifest destiny might have been slowed, it would not have been stopped.  The Empire, even sans America, often grew by means of local British types independently annexing bits.  And if American MPs, representing a deep desire to acquire land in the west were sitting in Westminster, there would have followed governmental approval.

The British desire to slow westward expansion was a holdover, I think, from the time when the Indians were needed as allies against the French - with the French largely gone by the time of the revolution, and certainly gone after the Napoleonic wars, the only foreign power left to push around would have been the Spanish.

British America would still have expanded across the continent, I think.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;336&#039;,&#039;Buckethead&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;336&#039;,&#039;Buckethead&#039;,&#039;I think that while the manifest destiny might have been slowed, it would not have been stopped.  The Empire, even sans America, often grew by means of local British types independently annexing bits.  And if American MPs, representing a deep desire to acquire land in the west were sitting in Westminster, there would have followed governmental approval.\r\n\r\nThe British desire to slow westward expansion was a holdover, I think, from the time when the Indians were needed as allies against the French - with the French largely gone by the time of the revolution, and certainly gone after the Napoleonic wars, the only foreign power left to push around would have been the Spanish.\r\n\r\nBritish America would still have expanded across the continent, I think.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that while the manifest destiny might have been slowed, it would not have been stopped.  The Empire, even sans America, often grew by means of local British types independently annexing bits.  And if American MPs, representing a deep desire to acquire land in the west were sitting in Westminster, there would have followed governmental approval.</p>
<p>The British desire to slow westward expansion was a holdover, I think, from the time when the Indians were needed as allies against the French &#8211; with the French largely gone by the time of the revolution, and certainly gone after the Napoleonic wars, the only foreign power left to push around would have been the Spanish.</p>
<p>British America would still have expanded across the continent, I think.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('336','Buckethead'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('336','Buckethead','I think that while the manifest destiny might have been slowed, it would not have been stopped.  The Empire, even sans America, often grew by means of local British types independently annexing bits.  And if American MPs, representing a deep desire to acquire land in the west were sitting in Westminster, there would have followed governmental approval.\r\n\r\nThe British desire to slow westward expansion was a holdover, I think, from the time when the Indians were needed as allies against the French - with the French largely gone by the time of the revolution, and certainly gone after the Napoleonic wars, the only foreign power left to push around would have been the Spanish.\r\n\r\nBritish America would still have expanded across the continent, I think.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://perfidy.org/one-big-happy-empire-or-red-america/comment-page-1/#comment-317</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 20:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;If I remember correctly, the United States and Britain had the two largest economies, with Germany a close third.&lt;/i&gt;

There is one problem - that is the two largest economies in the world as we know it.  I suspect that if there had not been an  American republic the Anglo presence would have reached much past the Blue Ridge.  What would be in the interior?  An Anglo-Cherokee-Ohio Commonwealth with loose ties to the Empire?  Continued Spanish control of the Mississippi and Pacific coast  possibly.  We got the economy we did because of unique synergies (I&#039;ve been in a few biz meetings lately) possible due to an expansionist American republic.

The British were serious about not expanding the colonies past the Ridge, and honoring treaties with the natives.  At the same time settlers were going over the wall, setting up commonwealths, establishing treaties with the Indians.  Moses Austin moved clean out of the country and became a Spanish subject .. in St. Louis .. to establish a colony of settlers in Missouri.

I don&#039;t think they could have stopped the migration, but a strong British presence would possibly have halted attempts to gain political control over the Ohio river valley.

It would certainly be a different world, possibly a better one, maybe worse.  My feeling is that the British presence would be restricted to the Atlantic coast, depriving the Empire of whatever economic prowess comes from the rest of the continent.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;317&#039;,&#039;Brian&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;317&#039;,&#039;Brian&#039;,&#039;&lt;i&gt;If I remember correctly, the United States and Britain had the two largest economies, with Germany a close third.&lt;\/i&gt;\r\n\r\nThere is one problem - that is the two largest economies in the world as we know it.  I suspect that if there had not been an  American republic the Anglo presence would have reached much past the Blue Ridge.  What would be in the interior?  An Anglo-Cherokee-Ohio Commonwealth with loose ties to the Empire?  Continued Spanish control of the Mississippi and Pacific coast  possibly.  We got the economy we did because of unique synergies (I\&#039;ve been in a few biz meetings lately) possible due to an expansionist American republic.\r\n\r\nThe British were serious about not expanding the colonies past the Ridge, and honoring treaties with the natives.  At the same time settlers were going over the wall, setting up commonwealths, establishing treaties with the Indians.  Moses Austin moved clean out of the country and became a Spanish subject .. in St. Louis .. to establish a colony of settlers in Missouri.\r\n\r\nI don\&#039;t think they could have stopped the migration, but a strong British presence would possibly have halted attempts to gain political control over the Ohio river valley.\r\n\r\nIt would certainly be a different world, possibly a better one, maybe worse.  My feeling is that the British presence would be restricted to the Atlantic coast, depriving the Empire of whatever economic prowess comes from the rest of the continent.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If I remember correctly, the United States and Britain had the two largest economies, with Germany a close third.</i></p>
<p>There is one problem &#8211; that is the two largest economies in the world as we know it.  I suspect that if there had not been an  American republic the Anglo presence would have reached much past the Blue Ridge.  What would be in the interior?  An Anglo-Cherokee-Ohio Commonwealth with loose ties to the Empire?  Continued Spanish control of the Mississippi and Pacific coast  possibly.  We got the economy we did because of unique synergies (I&#8217;ve been in a few biz meetings lately) possible due to an expansionist American republic.</p>
<p>The British were serious about not expanding the colonies past the Ridge, and honoring treaties with the natives.  At the same time settlers were going over the wall, setting up commonwealths, establishing treaties with the Indians.  Moses Austin moved clean out of the country and became a Spanish subject .. in St. Louis .. to establish a colony of settlers in Missouri.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think they could have stopped the migration, but a strong British presence would possibly have halted attempts to gain political control over the Ohio river valley.</p>
<p>It would certainly be a different world, possibly a better one, maybe worse.  My feeling is that the British presence would be restricted to the Atlantic coast, depriving the Empire of whatever economic prowess comes from the rest of the continent.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('317','Brian'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('317','Brian','&lt;i&gt;If I remember correctly, the United States and Britain had the two largest economies, with Germany a close third.&lt;\/i&gt;\r\n\r\nThere is one problem - that is the two largest economies in the world as we know it.  I suspect that if there had not been an  American republic the Anglo presence would have reached much past the Blue Ridge.  What would be in the interior?  An Anglo-Cherokee-Ohio Commonwealth with loose ties to the Empire?  Continued Spanish control of the Mississippi and Pacific coast  possibly.  We got the economy we did because of unique synergies (I\'ve been in a few biz meetings lately) possible due to an expansionist American republic.\r\n\r\nThe British were serious about not expanding the colonies past the Ridge, and honoring treaties with the natives.  At the same time settlers were going over the wall, setting up commonwealths, establishing treaties with the Indians.  Moses Austin moved clean out of the country and became a Spanish subject .. in St. Louis .. to establish a colony of settlers in Missouri.\r\n\r\nI don\'t think they could have stopped the migration, but a strong British presence would possibly have halted attempts to gain political control over the Ohio river valley.\r\n\r\nIt would certainly be a different world, possibly a better one, maybe worse.  My feeling is that the British presence would be restricted to the Atlantic coast, depriving the Empire of whatever economic prowess comes from the rest of the continent.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Buckethead</title>
		<link>http://perfidy.org/one-big-happy-empire-or-red-america/comment-page-1/#comment-316</link>
		<dc:creator>Buckethead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 18:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://perfidy.org/one-big-happy-empire-or-red-america/#comment-316</guid>
		<description>Woozie - the thing is, they already did maintain an empire nearly that big, even without having the United States as part of it.  Africa, India, China - those were all part of the British Empire we know and love.  Adding a more or less contented American population would not be a stretch (&quot;holding&quot; Canada, Australia and New Zealand were likewise not a real problem) and the additional resources provided by us would certainly make it possible to add a few bits here and there in the Western Hemisphere.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;316&#039;,&#039;Buckethead&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;316&#039;,&#039;Buckethead&#039;,&#039;Woozie - the thing is, they already did maintain an empire nearly that big, even without having the United States as part of it.  Africa, India, China - those were all part of the British Empire we know and love.  Adding a more or less contented American population would not be a stretch (\&quot;holding\&quot; Canada, Australia and New Zealand were likewise not a real problem) and the additional resources provided by us would certainly make it possible to add a few bits here and there in the Western Hemisphere.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woozie &#8211; the thing is, they already did maintain an empire nearly that big, even without having the United States as part of it.  Africa, India, China &#8211; those were all part of the British Empire we know and love.  Adding a more or less contented American population would not be a stretch (&#8220;holding&#8221; Canada, Australia and New Zealand were likewise not a real problem) and the additional resources provided by us would certainly make it possible to add a few bits here and there in the Western Hemisphere.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('316','Buckethead'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('316','Buckethead','Woozie - the thing is, they already did maintain an empire nearly that big, even without having the United States as part of it.  Africa, India, China - those were all part of the British Empire we know and love.  Adding a more or less contented American population would not be a stretch (\&quot;holding\&quot; Canada, Australia and New Zealand were likewise not a real problem) and the additional resources provided by us would certainly make it possible to add a few bits here and there in the Western Hemisphere.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Bram</title>
		<link>http://perfidy.org/one-big-happy-empire-or-red-america/comment-page-1/#comment-305</link>
		<dc:creator>Bram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 15:43:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 1931 and 32, I would be screaming that the New Deal will not end the Depression &#8211; arguably it extends it.  It will, however, compleely destroy the Federalist restraints that our government had been operating under so successfully.  Instead, it will let a monster federal government out of the bottle that can never be put back in without another violent revolution.  I would do everything possible to stop FDRâ€™s election, as I believe him to be the President who did the most violence to our Constitution.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('305','Bram'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('305','Bram','In 1931 and 32, I would be screaming that the New Deal will not end the Depression - arguably it extends it.  It will, however, compleely destroy the Federalist restraints that our government had been operating under so successfully.  Instead, it will let a monster federal government out of the bottle that can never be put back in without another violent revolution.  I would do everything possible to stop FDR&acirc;€™s election, as I believe him to be the President who did the most violence to our Constitution.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Naked Villainy &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Time traveling barcaloungers</title>
		<link>http://perfidy.org/one-big-happy-empire-or-red-america/comment-page-1/#comment-300</link>
		<dc:creator>Naked Villainy &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Time traveling barcaloungers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 01:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://perfidy.org/one-big-happy-empire-or-red-america/#comment-300</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Try this on for a line: It was very much like Dad telling his teenage son he doesnâ€™t get a vote on where the family goes f&#8230; [...]
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('300','Naked Villainy &amp;raquo; Blog Archive &amp;raquo; Time traveling barcaloungers'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('300','Naked Villainy &amp;raquo; Blog Archive &amp;raquo; Time traveling barcaloungers','&amp;#91;...&amp;#93; Try this on for a line: It was very much like Dad telling his teenage son he doesn&acirc;€™t get a vote on where the family goes f... &amp;#91;...&amp;#93;'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Woozie</title>
		<link>http://perfidy.org/one-big-happy-empire-or-red-america/comment-page-1/#comment-297</link>
		<dc:creator>Woozie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 01:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The British would have had an extremely difficult time managing an empire encompassing all that which you described. I don&#039;t think it can be done., no matter how technologically, economically, or militarily powerful that mega-empire would be.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;297&#039;,&#039;Woozie&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;297&#039;,&#039;Woozie&#039;,&#039;The British would have had an extremely difficult time managing an empire encompassing all that which you described. I don\&#039;t think it can be done., no matter how technologically, economically, or militarily powerful that mega-empire would be.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The British would have had an extremely difficult time managing an empire encompassing all that which you described. I don&#8217;t think it can be done., no matter how technologically, economically, or militarily powerful that mega-empire would be.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('297','Woozie'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('297','Woozie','The British would have had an extremely difficult time managing an empire encompassing all that which you described. I don\'t think it can be done., no matter how technologically, economically, or militarily powerful that mega-empire would be.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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